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Comments on The Talmudic "Drakkon" and the Chinese "Long"

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The Talmudic "Drakkon" and the Chinese "Long"

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It seems that there is a similarity between the "Drakkon" figure , as the Gemmara describes it, and the Chinese worshiped, mythical beast Loong.

Avoda Zara 43a.6:

תנו רבנן איזהו צורת דרקון פירש רשב"א כל שיש לו ציצין בין פרקיו מחוי רבי אסי בין פרקי צואר

The Sages taught: What is a figure of a dragon? Rabbi Shimon ben Elazar explained: It is any figure that has tassels between its joints. Rabbi Asi motioned with his hands to depict tassels between the joints of the neck.

[Sefaria translates ציצין as scales, that is an obvious mistake, קשקשים are scales, not ציצין]

Chinese dragon

Notice the tassels located mainly around the neck.

Are they the same? Did anyone in our sources noticed it?

avodah-zara-idolatry
posted over 4 years ago
4y ago by DonielF‭
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Alaychem‭
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1 comment thread

General comments (9 comments)
General comments
Harel13‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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Fascinating observation!

Harel13‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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As cool as it would be to see a connection between the two, it's more likely that it is based on the Greek and Roman myths of the drakons/dragons. For example, this mosaic

DonielF‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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If it's okay with you I went ahead and edited in a Wikipedia link to the Loong and reformatted your quote. I left your annotation alone following the translation, but you should know that Sefaria's translation follows Rashi's first interpretation: ציצין - תרגום של סנפיר. לשון אחר כמו שערות

Harel13‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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@DonielF but isn't סנפיר a fin and not a scale?

Alaychem‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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@Harel13 Were the Greek dragons worshiped?

Harel13‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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@Alaychem possibly

Alaychem‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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@Harel13 The Drakon in the Gemara was worshiped, as the Chinese Long. If the Greek Dragon figures were not worshiped, they are halacha-wise equivalent to "Hello kitty" dolls.

Harel13‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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@Alaychem agreed. Did you not look at my link? I wrote possibly because I have yet to really go through the book (or what's available on google...), but from what I saw, yes, it seems drakons and serpents were worshiped in certain places.

Alaychem‭ wrote over 4 years ago
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@Harel13 See page 271. Indeed looks like a possibly by some cults... it supports the Chinese case.