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Comments on Tzidkat'cha in the presence of a mourner

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Tzidkat'cha in the presence of a mourner

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If one is in shul on a Shabbos afternoon and a mourner (who is in his 7 days) is davening there, does the minyan say Tzidkat'cha?

My logic -- during the week,one does not say tachanun in the house of a mourner (or, if the mourner must daven in shul, in the shul). My siddur says that we don't say Tzaidkat'cha on a Shabbat that, if it were a weekday,w e would not say tachanun on. Not saying tzidkat'cha is therefore not a demonstration of public mourning by the mourner (which is not allwoed on Shabbat) but a reaction to a person's presence.

If a mourner's saying kaddish is not a public display of mourning (nor would changing seats in shul even though it is driven by mourning) why would NOT saying the prayer be a problem?

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during the week,one does not say tachanun in the house of a mourner (or, if the mourner must daven in shul, in the shul).

(Emphasis added to the key phrase.)

Except, that's not the case, at least in my Shul. A Chassan during the week of Sheva Brachos, or a same-day Bris (father, Sandek or Mohel, even if the Bris is not going to take place in Shul) cancels Tachanun for everyone. But a mourner during Shiva does not. There are certainly cases where a mourner Davens in Shul during Shiva, but that doesn't turn the Shul into a Shiva house. In addition to not affecting Tachanun for everyone else, the mourner can't lead the Davening. The mourner can attend, can be counted for a Minyan, and can say Kaddish, but it is still a public Minyan and not the same status as a "Shiva Minyan".

Tzidkat'cha on Shabbos should be no different than Tachanun on a weekday. I would expect, but have no personal experience, that if a mourner had a Shiva Minyan on Shabbos afternoon (not the usual practice in my area, but certainly can be done) that nobody would say Tzidkat'cha in the Shiva house.

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So it is the house and not the person? I recall that when I was an aveil and minyan was in shul I DID... (4 comments)
So it is the house and not the person? I recall that when I was an aveil and minyan was in shul I DID...
rosends‭ wrote 11 months ago

So it is the house and not the person? I recall that when I was an aveil and minyan was in shul I DID daven for the amud but I don't remember whether or not we said tachanun. What if (as was the case in the olden days) the person sitting shiva lived in the shul?

manassehkatz‭ wrote 11 months ago

As with a lot of things with Aveilus, it is often more Minhag than straight Halacha. Logically (though not necessarily 100%) if the Aveil can lead Davening then the Minyan becomes a Shiva MInyan and therefore no Tachanun. In my Shul though that's not allowed. If I remember correctly, there are different rules for Tisha B'Av - everyone is (in a sense) an Aveil - sitting on the floor, etc. - but that's a day when there is no Tachanun so we can't extrapolate from that.

rosends‭ wrote 11 months ago

But if on shabbos, we don't generally have the aveil daven for the amud (usually -- there are cases where it could happen) then is it still a shiva minyan (for the sake of no tzidkat'cha) because of his presence which would, even if he didn't daven for the amud on a Tuesday, stop tachanun

manassehkatz‭ wrote 11 months ago

That is a valid question. But I am saying that if we don't (as in my Shul) allow the Aveil to lead Davening during the week of Shiva even on a weekday and don't call it a "Shiva Minyan" for Tachanun, etc. then all the more so for a Minyan on Shabbos when all would agree that he can't lead Davening.