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A few years ago, on the fall equinox, I noticed that the day was longer than 12 hours according to the (secular) sunrise/sunset times. Curious, I did some investigation. One reason for the differ...
#2: Post edited
by
Monica Cellio
·
2021-11-29T20:00:20Z (almost 3 years ago)
A comment suggested that the original title was confusing for non-Jews who happen to see the title on the network (start + sunset was confusing), so trying to make more accessible.
For the start of the day, is sunset astronomical or visible?
- For starting Shabbat, is sunset astronomical or visible?
#1: Initial revision
by
Monica Cellio
·
2021-11-29T01:46:36Z (almost 3 years ago)
For the start of the day, is sunset astronomical or visible?
A few years ago, on the fall equinox, I noticed that the day was longer than 12 hours according to the (secular) sunrise/sunset times. Curious, I did some investigation. One reason for the difference is how we measure -- the equinox is based on when the *center* of the sun is visible while sunrise/sunset times are based on when the *top edge* is visible. That only accounts for a couple minutes; though; the bigger factor is [atmospheric refraction](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_refraction) (discussed in simpler terms [here](https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/equinox-not-equal.html)), which, in a nutshell, means that the sun is visible to us in the sky *even when it is below the horizon*, for several minutes. This made me wonder about the effect on *halachic* times. [This article](https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3240769/jewish/Why-Are-Shabbat-Candles-Lit-18-Minutes-Before-Sunset.htm) says that the *halacha* is that Shabbat begins at sunset, though we add time for safety. I know that, *l'hatchila*, we add (usually) 18 minutes before the start of Shabbat or Yom Tov to provide a cushion. That's more than enough to account for any false effects due to refraction, but I've also been told that, *b'dieved*, if one is running late and has to cut into those 18 minutes, it's still ok so long as you actually began Shabbat/Yom Tov before the end of those 18 minutes, at sunset. And therein lies my question. Regardless of how we *halachically* define sunset (that is, what part of the sun we're comparing to the horizon), we might see the reference point above the horizon and conclude that it is not yet sunset *when the sun has actually already set*. Does this mean that the day has in fact started -- we go by where the sun is, not where it appears to be -- and if you light at the 15th of the 18 minutes you're kindling fire on Shabbat? Or, *halachically*, is sunset based on what we *see*, not what we now know happens scientifically? According to the abstract of [this paper](https://www.osapublishing.org/ao/abstract.cfm?uri=ao-44-27-5624), western science knew about atmospheric refraction in the second century BCE; it's not new. I know there's discussion (somewhere) of Shabbat times if you're in the mountains or have an obstructed view of the horizon, and maybe that's relevant here. That's a more localized situation, while atmospheric refraction happens everywhere all the time, so I don't know if that makes it a different case. I know that it also takes eight minutes or so for sunlight to reach earth at all, but that feels like a different problem. Does Shabbat really start sometime during the 18 minutes? ---- I asked this question some years ago elsewhere and didn't get an answer. I came across a blog post I'd written about it at the time, and that prompted me to re-ask it here.