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The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now. What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the R...
Answer
#7: Post edited
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T17:58:15Z (almost 4 years ago)
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) (see the **Mizrachi**, who seems to be aware of this point). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question in a different context: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 73 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) (see the **Mizrachi**, who seems to be aware of this point). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question in a different context: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
#6: Post edited
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T07:57:40Z (almost 4 years ago)
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question in a different context: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) (see the **Mizrachi**, who seems to be aware of this point). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question in a different context: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
#5: Post edited
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T07:54:47Z (almost 4 years ago)
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
[^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question in a different context: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
#4: Post edited
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T07:53:58Z (almost 4 years ago)
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the Heichal of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah*) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the *Heichal* of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah* ([**Keilim** 1:8](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Kelim.1.8?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
#3: Post edited
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T07:50:19Z (almost 4 years ago)
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם. He even brings from the **Mizrachi** the question of how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure; your exact question!The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org./Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the Heichal of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah*) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם from the **Mizrachi** ([Chiddushim on the Semag Hilchos Chanukah](https://tablet.otzar.org/en/book/book.php?book=200636&pagenum=12)). The latter also infers it from the **Rambam** in [**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Chanukah* 3:2](https://www.sefaria.org/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Scroll_of_Esther_and_Hanukkah.3.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en), who says it took eight days to make the oil. I guess it should only take one day, so the other seven must have been for purification.
- Now, the **Mizrachi** asks how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, **your exact question**! The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org/Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the Heichal of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah*) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
#2: Post edited
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T07:44:00Z (almost 4 years ago)
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם. He even brings from the **Mizrachi** the question of how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, your exact question!The **Mizrachi** suggests they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org./Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the Heichal of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah*) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now.
- What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end):
- > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה
- >
- > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back.
- However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם. He even brings from the **Mizrachi** the question of how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure; your exact question!
- The **Mizrachi** suggests that they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure.
- Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org./Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi).
- Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)[^1]? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the Heichal of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah*) using this long stick. This way they never went inside.
- In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly.
- How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.
- [^1]: [**Tosafos** to **Chullin** 2b](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Tosafot_on_Chullin.2b.8.2?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en) s.v. שמא יגע bring a similar type of question: הקשה רבינו אפרים איך יתכן שתהא סכין ארוכה כל כך מהר הבית עד עזרת ישראל
#1: Initial revision
by
robev
·
2020-12-08T07:35:30Z (almost 4 years ago)
The following isn't necessarily the only answer, and the sources aren't necessarily the earliest. Also, this is just a partial answer for now. What you were taught as a child is mentioned by the **Ran** to Shabbos 9b (in the pagination of the **Rif**) *s.v.* תנו רבנן (end): > ומשום הכי היו שמנה ימים מפני שהיה להם שמן טהור רחוק ארבעה ימים והוצרכו שמנה ימים בין הליכה וחזרה > > The reason it was eight days was because they had pure oil four days away, so they needed eight days to go there and back. However, the approach you found on Wikipedia is brought by the [**Pri Chadash**](https://beta.hebrewbooks.org/tursa.aspx?a=oc_x3108) to **Shulchan Aruch** *Orach Chaim* 670:1 *s.v.* והטעם. He even brings from the **Mizrachi** the question of how could they light with the pure oil if they were spiritually impure, your exact question! The **Mizrachi** suggests they used a very long stick to light the Menorah. Plain pieces of wood don't become impure, so the oil remained pure. Then he asks how could they use the Menorah, which itself was impure. He says they made a wooden Menorah. This is actually a *gemarra* in [**Avodah Zarah** 43a](https://www.sefaria.org./Avodah_Zarah.43a.15?vhe=Wikisource_Talmud_Bavli&lang=bi&p2=Rashi_on_Avodah_Zarah.43a.16&lang2=bi). Now, the **Pri Chadash** seems to ask on the **Mizrachi** that he should have asked how was it possible to light the Menorah with a 135 *amah* stick (approx. 729 metres)? It seems from this question that he understood the **Mizrachi** to be suggesting that they somehow got their wooden Menorah in the Heichal of the Temple, and lit it from the Temple Mount (where someone impure from the deceased is allowed to stand, after going to the *mikvah*) using this long stick. This way they never went inside. In any event, the **Pri Chadash** rejects the approach of the **Mizrachi**, because there's a rule that if the majority of the congregation is spiritually impure from the deceased, the laws of spiritual impurity are suspended for certain *mitzvos*. One of them is lighting the Menorah ([**Mishneh Torah** *Hilchos Tamidim UMussafim* 3:10](https://www.sefaria.org.il/Mishneh_Torah%2C_Daily_Offerings_and_Additional_Offerings.3.10?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en)). They couldn't use the impure oil that they found, because that was impure for different reasons than contact with the decased (the Greeks made them impure with different levels of impurity). They therefore only had the single jar they found of pure oil. They also couldn't make the new oil while impure, as that far we don't say. Therefore they had to wait until they were spiritually pure to make more oil. He admits though that you have to say that they were allowed to make the wooden Menorah while impure. So it seems he held they went straight into the *Heichal* and light their wooden Menorah directly. How they found the ashes of the red heifer I'm not sure. I would guess it was hidden somewhere that the Greeks didn't have access to. I assume they had some somewhere and not that they made fresh ashes as that's more complicated to do and I'm not sure if they had enough time.