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Q&A

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Comments on Can anyone explain the heavenly voice in the oven of Akhnai?

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Can anyone explain the heavenly voice in the oven of Akhnai?

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Starting at the beginning, since I don't read Hebrew, how accurate is the translation "Why are you differing with Rabbi Eliezer, as the halakha is in accordance with his opinion in every place that he expresses an opinion?"? There could be nuance in the Hebrew vital to understanding.

A point that I haven't seen addressed, though my studies have admittedly been limited, is that this was an unexpected thing for anyone to say. The heavenly voice did not just say the oven was not susceptible to ritual impurity. It said, according to that translation, that Rabbi Eliezer was always right in his legal opinions.

Even the most learned and brilliant of scholars is subject to human fallibility. Is there analysis anywhere of what it means that a heavenly voice said otherwise?

Is there an idea out there that the miracles and the voice were a test of the Sanhedrin's firmness in their analysis? If so, is it conceivable that a heavenly voice would exaggerate to probe the responses of the listeners?

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1 comment thread

What is interesting to me is that the voice is speaking of a klal, a general rule of deciding a law, ... (4 comments)
What is interesting to me is that the voice is speaking of a klal, a general rule of deciding a law, ...
rosends‭ wrote almost 2 years ago

What is interesting to me is that the voice is speaking of a klal, a general rule of deciding a law, and yet this principle is not found on a list of such https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Klalei_HaTalmud#General

Monica Cellio‭ wrote almost 2 years ago

Also, a much more oft-stated "rule" is that when Hillel and Shammai disagree Hillel is right, but there are (if I recall correctly) six counter-examples. Outside of this passage, I've never heard the claim made about Rabbi Eliezer, but if he were "always" right I would have expected to encounter that claim more often than the one about Hillel/Shammai. Granted I'm not an expert and what I say is anecdotal.

rosends‭ wrote almost 2 years ago

Monica Cellio‭ that's exactly what fascinates me. The bat kol doesn't say "R Eliezer is right" but invokes a (heretofore?) non-existent principle!

msh210‭ wrote almost 2 years ago · edited almost 2 years ago

It shouldn't be surprising that this rule isn't on a list of practical rules of decision: after all, it's not a practical rule. Rather, it's a rule of the divine voice, if you will, which is not accepted practically.