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Comments on If a Zoom minyan reads torah (without blessings, as study), should the reader still chant?

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If a Zoom minyan reads torah (without blessings, as study), should the reader still chant?

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Due to the pandemic some communities are having weekday services on Zoom. (There seem to be leniencies that support this. That is not what this question is about.) We can't read from the torah scroll except in the presence of a minyan, and the communities I know about who are meeting on Zoom are holding by that and not having a torah service. However, some of them are studying torah at that place in the service by having somebody read the day's aliyot, without the blessings.

Assuming this torah-study approach is permitted in a service in the first place (and if it's not, please address that), my question is: is there a preference either for or against the reader chanting the portion publicly? On the one hand, chanting might be an enhancement and thus a benefit. On the other hand, chanting it when we're not actually reading torah from the scroll as part of a torah service might mislead or confuse people. (This concern doesn't arise if you are chanting in your private torah study.) On the third hand, we chant the Sh'ma, which is torah text too, outside of any torah service and in public, so maybe people are expected to pay attention to context and we needn't be concerned with the appearance of having a torah service.

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1 comment thread

General comments (16 comments)
General comments
manassehkatz‭ wrote over 4 years ago

Anecdotally, so just a comment: I routinely read Pesukim with Trop. It comes naturally for me and I find it easier to remember things as well. I know at least one of my Rebbeim from High School (an excellent Baal Koreh) definitely did (and I assume still does) the same. The only place I see a real issue is Aseres Hadibros. There are two different sets of Trop, and more importantly, alignments of Pesukim for "study" vs. "layn in Shul". But other than that, I can't see how it would be a problem.

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 4 years ago

And not quite the same, but possibly related: Our Shul is planning on Eichah via Zoom. Unlike Torah reading (or even Megillas Esther) there are no Brachos or Minyan issues. But I assume it will be with the traditional Trop.

Monica Cellio‭ wrote over 4 years ago

@manassehkatz I assume we can do this privately, but, as you said and I tried to get at (maybe not clearly enough), doing it in public as part of a service might be different.

rosends‭ wrote over 4 years ago

when you look in your chumash at the 10 dibrot, you will see 2 sets of trop notation -- one for when you lain and one for when you study. To my eyes, this points to an expectation that even out of shul, you will use the trop.

Monica Cellio‭ wrote over 4 years ago

@rosends my question is more about whether you can use the trop in shul in this context. I've edited to clarify, thanks.

AA ‭ wrote over 4 years ago · edited over 4 years ago

@manassehkatz someone can certainly read eikha via zoom, but no one but the reader can fulfill their obligation that way (at least, on the mainstream position; as is now pretty well known R' Moshe Feinstein thought one could be lenient in dire circumstances which this isn't since people can read along and don't need a scroll)

AA ‭ wrote over 4 years ago · edited over 4 years ago

@rosends that's the "sefardi" understanding. the "ashkenazi" understanding is one is for reading on shvauot and one is for reading the weekly parsha. (I use quotes because that a major simplification of who historically exactly thought what, and probably neither is an original reason)

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 4 years ago

@AA My Shul (Ashkenazi) uses the alternate Trop for both Shabbos and Shavuos, as noted in the Artscroll Stone Chumash page 415.

AA ‭ wrote over 4 years ago · edited over 4 years ago

@manasseh apparently your shul has adopted a sefardi custom. it's not the biggest deal either way, of course, since you certainly still fulfill your obligation. (if i had to guess it's due to an influence of chassidim/"sfard" type nusach. artscroll also only prints the sefardi aliya breaks for haazinu, so they are hardly a reliable source for different customs.)

Skipping 1 deleted comment.

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 4 years ago · edited over 4 years ago

@AA There are actually a few Nusach Sefard-ish customs in my Shul for historical (60+ years ago) reasons. But until this conversation, I had no idea that this particular custom was not standard Ashkenazi practice. I know Artscroll is not an absolute - our rules are essentially "If it isn't in the Gabbai handbook then go according to Artscroll". As far as Haazinu, that is an eternal controversy in our Shul - effectively "Baal Koreh's choice"

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 4 years ago

along with "Where do you start Layning on the first day of Chanukah?"

magicker72‭ wrote over 4 years ago

@AA What obligation is there in the reading of Eicha that it needs to be "fulfilled" in a particular way?

Monica Cellio‭ wrote over 4 years ago

@magicker72 sounds like a new question to me.

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 4 years ago

@AA I just checked with my LOR and he said no need to say/read along with Zoom Eicha.