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Comments on Can a woman blow the shofar during Elul for herself? Can anyone?

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Can a woman blow the shofar during Elul for herself? Can anyone?

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Does a woman fulfill the obligation to hear the shofar during Elul if she blows it for herself, or is this one of the mitzvot where a man (must? should?) perform the action on behalf of others? For that matter, can anyone fulfill the obligation by personally blowing, or do you need to hear someone else?

I have learned, though I don't remember where, that hearing the shofar must be in person, not over the phone. I am wondering about the case where that is not possible, not due to illness (when I think I've learned you would be excused) but because there is no minyan. Can one "self-serve"? Including women?

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General comments (2 comments)
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I would posit that there is no obligation of Shofar during Elul. It is a longstanding custom, but there are none of the hallmarks of an obligation, even Rabbinic:

  • No ברכה (blessing) associated with it
  • No calling out of the notes, as is required on Rosh Hashanah
  • Extreme leniency (at least in my experience) with regard to length/quality of the notes

On that basis, there would seem to be no need to blow the Shofar during Elul without a Minyan. (See e.g. Tzitz Eliezer 12:48 and Rivevot Ephraim I:394.) On the other hand, doing so would not seem to be forbidden in any way (e.g., without a Minyan or by a woman), as there is no Muktzah or other restriction on use of a Shofar except on Shabbos or Yom Tov.

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General comments (13 comments)
General comments
AA ‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

Calling out the notes is not required on Rosh Hashanah as far as I know.

AA ‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

Why do you limit yourself to "there would seem to be no need to blow the Shofar during Elul without a Minyan"? All your arguments apply equally to a minyan as well

manassehkatz‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

Calling out the notes is not required on Rosh Hashanah as far as I know. - Strictly required, no. If someone is blowing Shofar for an individual or group (or obviously, for himself by himself) outside of the regular Davening, calling out the notes is not needed. But it is a very structured and (I believe) important part when Shofar is blown as part of Davening. But that is not done during Elul - i.e., a definite difference from RH.

manassehkatz‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

The difference (but I don't have the solid proof - if someone can provide it that would be great, I don't have time to research it right now) is that on RH it is normally with a Minyan but the obligation - particularly as evidenced by the Brachah - applies even without a Minyan. On the other hand, during Elul I believe this is a "part of Davening with a Minyan", not to require a Minyan but rather something that goes "with Minyan Davening* and not a personal obligation.

AA ‭ wrote almost 4 years ago · edited almost 4 years ago

Calling out the notes is practiced on Yom Kippur at Neilah in at least some communities, even though that blowing is 'only' customary.

AA ‭ wrote almost 4 years ago · edited almost 4 years ago

This answer feels to me to be entirely missing the point. While clarifying what level of obligation hearing shofar during Elul is (and a custom can be obligatory, despite the apparent word games in this answer), the OP still doesn't know if a woman fulfills it if she blew the shofar herself. (Not to mention that the most important argument here, that of the apparent significance of a minyan, is entirely hidden and unsupported.)

manassehkatz‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

@AA End result: 1 - I think but don't have supporting sources and don't have time to do the proper research right now that this is truly not obligatory and therefore not a question of "if a woman fulfills" but rather nothing to fulfill; 2 - Feel free to write a better answer - if sufficiently better, I will delete my own.

AA ‭ wrote almost 4 years ago · edited almost 4 years ago

If one doesn't have a correct good answer to post one can't feel something is wrong with what is posted? I very much dislike deflecting legitimate criticism with "I don't see you doing it better". That may not have been your intention but that's how your suggestion comes across to me.

manassehkatz‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

@AA That wasn't my intention. But I still believe my answer is correct, until shown otherwise. Good is in the eye of the beholder. I had a somewhat opposite situation on Electrical Engineering - I saw a serious flaw (obviously, that is subjective - you see flaws in my answer here that I think are not a big deal!) and after a few rounds of comments I went ahead and wrote my own answer.

manassehkatz‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

@AA I am also perfectly fine (I have discovered both here and on SE/SO that some people are OK with this, some are absolutely not ) with you or anyone else adding/editing useful information to my answers.

Skipping 1 deleted comment.

JoelK‭ wrote almost 4 years ago

@manassehkatz Sure. I've made a suggested edit

interested‭ wrote over 3 years ago

The question is asked why isnt it bal tosif.