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Comments on Groundbreaking disagreement in the Gemara?

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Groundbreaking disagreement in the Gemara?

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Last Shabbat, one of the community, who came from Ethiopia, gave a lesson about the different customs an traditions that they had back there at Ethiopia.

He was pointing out several major differences between what the Ethiopian tradition and the Gemara-Rishonim-Shulchan Aruch way of Psika that we practice.(e.g. Sfirat Ha-Omer starts after the seventh day of Passover, rather then the first)

At this point, one of the listeners said that now, that he knows better, he can fix all of the mistakes that they made back there, since they didn't know the Tora ShBeal Pe (Oral tradition).

After the lesson, I told that guy that it is very ignorant of him, and since they have father-to-son tradition all the way back to Bait Rishon (first temple), well before the Mishna, it is legitimate and they should keep it.

I was able to make him change his mind about most of the subjects, except one - the Sfirat Haomer start time. he said that since it is impossible that there was a disagreement about it ever, because Shavuot was celebrated once and not twice, so they must be wrong about it.

I told him that even so, since they have a tradition of a different opinion, it is still valid. [although, when the Jews of Ethiopia came to Israel, they started to count from after the first festival]

I am looking for a similar level of disagreement at the Mishna\Gemara, that is, a disagreement that holds even that there is a established practice that supports one opinion.

The closest I could find is the disagreement about if a Yovel is part of the Shmita cycle, but it is not good enough, since that the cycle count probably ceased at some point.

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1 comment thread

General comments (9 comments)
General comments
Alaychem‭ wrote over 3 years ago

I couldn't find a better title for this question. Feel free to edit.

robev‭ wrote over 3 years ago

"(e.g. Sfirat Ha-Omer starts after the seconed festival of Passover, rather then the first)" what do you mean by that? You mean second day of Pesach? Why would anyone say it's after the first day of Pesach? It doesn't fit the verses...

Alaychem‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@robev I meant the second Yom Tov. I fixed for celerity.

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 3 years ago

Fascinating. Both of the stated cases - Sefirah and Yovel - have to do with things that, at their core, require living in Israel, and clearly will be observed by all Jews identically once we have the Temple again (as opposed to, for example, disagreements about many other things that are not inherently dependent on a public act (Omer) or statement of Sanhedrin (counting of Yovel, etc.). But as far as Sefirah, I wonder if the Ethiopian way is based on "Mimacharat Hashabbat" - the day after the

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 3 years ago

Shabbat being interpreted to mean "after the Shabbat = 7th day = end of week" of Pesach, rather than the traditional accepted "day after 1st day of Pesach, which is a Shabbat-like day" or the alternative (Samaritan? Karaite? I get all those confused...) "day after actual Shabbat" which led to some groups trying to force Pesach to start on Shabbat, so that the Omer offering/start of Sefirah would be on a Sunday, which in turn, IIRC, led to manipulation of Rosh Chodesh.

Alaychem‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@manassehkatz You don't have to be in Israel for the Sefira,it is still required for the date of Shavuot

manassehkatz‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Alaychem Yes, it is still a Mitzvah (though as I understand it, many of the accepted Halachos regarding "missed a day", etc. are based on it possibly being D'rabbanan when there is no actual Omer offering). My point is that in the time of the Beis Hamikdash, it is clearly tied to the actual offering, and that would be one place, one time, and therefore unambiguous.

DonielF‭ wrote over 3 years ago

To clarify, the Ethiopian practice is to count, e.g., tonight as day 8? And then they still observe Shavuoth on what would be day 50 according to their count?

Alaychem‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@DonielF Yes. When you count 15 they (used to) count 8, and their Shavuoth will be week later.