Communities

Writing
Writing
Codidact Meta
Codidact Meta
The Great Outdoors
The Great Outdoors
Photography & Video
Photography & Video
Scientific Speculation
Scientific Speculation
Cooking
Cooking
Electrical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Judaism
Judaism
Languages & Linguistics
Languages & Linguistics
Software Development
Software Development
Mathematics
Mathematics
Christianity
Christianity
Code Golf
Code Golf
Music
Music
Physics
Physics
Linux Systems
Linux Systems
Power Users
Power Users
Tabletop RPGs
Tabletop RPGs
Community Proposals
Community Proposals
tag:snake search within a tag
answers:0 unanswered questions
user:xxxx search by author id
score:0.5 posts with 0.5+ score
"snake oil" exact phrase
votes:4 posts with 4+ votes
created:<1w created < 1 week ago
post_type:xxxx type of post
Search help
Notifications
Mark all as read See all your notifications »

Welcome to the Judaism community on Codidact!

Will you help us build our community of learners? Drop into our study hall, ask questions, help others with answers to their questions, share a d'var torah if you're so inclined, invite your friends, and join us in building this community together. Not an ask-the-rabbi service, just people at all levels learning together.

Review Suggested Edit

You can't approve or reject suggested edits because you haven't yet earned the Edit Posts ability.

Approved.
This suggested edit was approved and applied to the post over 4 years ago by Monica Cellio‭.

9 / 255
Can a terminally-ill patient give up his ventilator to save another?
Last week I took a class on priorities in triage -- one ventilator, two people who will die without it, who gets it?  We reviewed sources in talmud and later commentaries, some of which I remember from a class on self-driving cars and how they should be programmed in the case of impending accidents.  The class then turned to two modern opinions.

R' Moshe Feinstein in Iggerot Moshe HM II:73 says, essentially, first come, first served, and once you have allocated a bed to one patient, even if he is terminally ill, you can't then reallocate it to somebody who is otherwise healthy and would live many years but for the immediate condition.  (It sounds like he means even before you've hooked the person up to the ventilator -- you've just given him a bed so far.)  [R' Manashe Klein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menashe_Klein), on the other hand, in Responsa Mishneh Halakhot XVII:175, seems to be saying that you can take the terminally-ill person off of the ventilator in order to give it to someone healthier.  He wrote this in response to a question from a doctor at a hospital that had the policy of not giving the ventilator (of which they had only one) to terminally-ill patients to begin with, lest a healthier person come in later and they would be unable to move it.  If I am understanding correctly, R' Klein says that it is in fact permissible to remove the ventilator from the first person in order to give it to the second, and furthermore that a hospital can establish this as a condition of receiving treatment in the first place (that you must agree to this).  I assume (but do not know) that he permits removal because it's passive, removing aid, and his fate at that point is in the hands of Heaven.

My question is about a patient in a hospital following R' Klein's policy.  R' Feinstein says that the (first) patient has no obligation, "and perhaps he is even forbidden", to save the other patient's life at the cost of his own.  According to R' Feinstein, the terminally-ill person might not be allowed to waive his right to treatment once started, though the text I have doesn't source that supposition.  The class I took didn't take up this point.

Is a terminally-ill patient permitted to cede care he is already receiving to allow it to be applied to someone else (who is not terminally ill), as R' Klein indicates, or is he not, as R' Feinstein alludes to?  What are the applicable sources?

Suggested over 4 years ago by Dani‭